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User talk:Angel Emfrbl
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for . :' ' is a great first stop, because you can see what pages other people have been editing, and where you can help. :Questions? You can ask at the Help desk or on the associated with each article, or post a message on ! :Need help? The Community Portal has an outline of the site, and pages to help you learn how to edit. :Please every time you edit, so that we can recognise you! :Here's a wiki tip for you -- you can sign your name on discussion pages by typing ~~~~ which automatically adds your signature and the date. Check out the for more tricks. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! --Antonio Lopez (talk) 14:02, May 13, 2010 (UTC) Check your email Seriously, might be an idea if you're online anyway. Edits of removal Um, it's okay to remove the lines if you think they are not appropriate, but please explain what is wrong in the edit summary next time. Anyway, what were wrong with them?Blacksaingrain 14:04, June 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh, sorry. I passed over "Until Gackpoid was released, Kaito and Leon ..." and thought they were gone. By the way, I think how their songs rated is important and it should be in their history. It's not like fanmade settings.Blacksaingrain 14:24, June 2, 2010 (UTC) I’ve just looked for some articles using "trivia" and found them in Animation or Manga wikias(Maybe there’s more though). At there, the information in trivia is something like character’s profile in details or their ranks in fan polls. Those are not directly related to their histories(stories), so I agree that they’re trivia. But for vocaloids, I still think their songs are part of their history and not trivia since if the songs gain fine reputations would greatly influence their values and their works tell what they are. I think the songs and the information about them are one of the main subjects. This is just my opinion though. Hmm,maybe I’d better fix and add them to “notable songs” somehow. I’ll delete them for now.Blacksaingrain 17:02, June 2, 2010 (UTC) :Well, I think we still don’t need to separate them like that, and once we do it, it may cause edit wars and arguments. There is no standard to judge which works are notable/normal/famous yet, but they are quite well-balanced even without it. I don’t want to make it off and cause the controversies till they are necessary. Also, Miku has more than 170 songs that made 100,000 on Nico and it’s impossible to put them all on wiki.(That’s why I made playlists on Youtube) Anyway, I’ll try to look for better ways :)Blacksaingrain 04:56, June 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, Miku really has a lot. When I knew it I was surprised too XD She is special on Nico and I think we can't always put her and other vocaloids in the same arena. I wish Lola and other English vocaloids had songs half as much as she hasBlacksaingrain 06:35, June 4, 2010 (UTC). Yeah, Sweet Ann is as famous as Leon on Nico. There are more than 450 video related to her there(She has the most among English vocaloids), while Lola has only 136. Poor Lola, but comparing to Miku, I can’t say Ann has enough either (Miku has more than 70,000). If she had a better artwork, she might have got more popular. By the way, are you tired of Japanese and Crypton fans? Haha, then, you would get tired of me too XD (JJ, I’m not taking your words offence) Well, many Japanese consider themselves poor at English and they believe it would be too hard to use English vocaloids or write lyrics in English. I think that’s the main reason of it. And I’d bet Crypton would not change their styles as long as their products are selling well even if they are trying to develop new ones at the back. Crypton is a small company and they can’t do something without regard to commercial concerns. Since KAITO became popular female users have increased and most of them like both male & female vocaloids though, most of the male users are not so interested in male vocaloids. A young female voice sells better in Japan. Oh but, I agree that keeping the challenge alive is important.Blacksaingrain 10:15, June 5, 2010 (UTC) I like high-voiced songs but I prefer male vocaloids to be low voiced :) It's a matter of taste though, Leon sounds really good in low voice as well as KAITO. It’s true that KAITO’s poor sales was a hard hit for Crypton. They might be thinking it would be too risky to develop another male vocaloid and his popularity was just by chance. I feel really sad that they’re trying to ignore MEIKO and KAITO now, even they are still selling well. However, the following Crypton’s products also did sell well and that means each of products has been distinguished, supported and loved by many people and Crypton have just served many clients' needs. I think it’s fine as there are other companies that develop vocaloids and without doubt what Crypton produced made ‘vocaloid’ more popular. Well, I know there’re many fans that say Crypton is the best and only the best, but I guess most of them just want to say that they love Crypton’s vocaloids best regardless of their qualitity as softwares. Vocaloid fans are not always vocaloid users and also not so familiar with their performances or how to use them. Japanese fans who use vocaloids well never say such things like which company’s vocaloid is only the best easily. And the bottom line here is, what important to most of fans is if songs, voices or words get to their hearts or not, I suppose. Miku is beloved not because she is perfect as a product, but because she can touch a lot of people. Some people say they are greatly encouraged by her since she sounds like she is trying as hard as possible to sing like a man. Measuring something by its maturity and performance as a software is one thing and it’s a very interesting viewpoint though, I think we can’t properly evaluate them by that alone. Sonika has gentle, sweet voice while she often sounds a bit furry. The voice quality, including accent, really influences editing a lot, doesn't it? I like MIRIAM more than Ann but I agree that it’s easy for Ann to sing clearer. Ann’s artwork is just like what you said, not bad itself, just unsuitable for the market. As English is not very necessary in Japan and English vocaloids would be more easy-to-use for native English people, I hope native English speakers who use them will increase. Blacksaingrain 19:01, June 7, 2010 (UTC) :I just wanted to explain what most of the Japanese vocaloid fans are like. I’m sure people who can make the fairer answers, if they exist, are the ones who don’t love vocaloids and companys so much lol Truly it’s a matter of personal taste, wants, needs and judgmental standard. Just like talking over who is the best singer in the world, each one can have his own opinion and standard but no one can force them to others. Of course enjoying discussing is fine though :) :Presetting Vocaloids2’s breath in 5 levels really changes the sound. I have never used English vocaloids, but sure it would change hers a lot as well. As there’s an Act2 for Rin/Len, I think it's nice for Sonika to have it too. Conpanies respond to fans’ requests, sometimes. Yes, sometimes. Anyway I’m looking forward to newcome vocaloids. :By the way, I’m thinking of adding this text to each vocaloid’s “notable song” section; :“There are not less that 66,000 videos on Nico Nico Douga, 144,000 on Youtube, which are related to Miku Hatsune. More than 170 of her songs were inducted into Vocaloid's Hall of Fame on Nico Nico Douga (exceeded 100,000 views) & recorded in more than 10,000 mylists. Miku’s Songlist inducted into Vocaloid's Hall of Fame ” http://www.nicovideo.jp/search/%E5%88%9D%E9%9F%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%82%AF, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E5%88%9D%E9%9F%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%82%AF&aq=f, http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/vocaloid%E6%AE%BF%E5%A0%82%E5%85%A5%E3%82%8A :Maybe I’ll change it to “more than 8000 mylists” though.Blacksaingrain 01:38, June 11, 2010 (UTC) SONiKA's songs Hey even though i don't have an account I wanted to respond to your message on the sonika page (so you don't get mad....><) I noticed that the section had become rather cluttered and i think that the section should focus on directing new SONiKA users/fans to original songs frist and only *very* popular covers. But if having the covers up means so much to you then i suggest maybe a section just for covers. ~~ DSQ Name Titles brightness I don't think it works very well. Bunai82 14:07, June 20, 2010 (UTC) Lily Confirmed. It’s perfectly acceptable. I put some same references on the article just to show which source I used, but please delete some of them if you think they are unnecessary(I'm sure they are).Blacksaingrain 09:53, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :No problem, we should help each other in times of need. I’ll go through after you finish your edition.Blacksaingrain 12:06, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, when it comes to technical sides, probably forums or blogs are the places where we can find information most. I think gathering technical information with a lot of technical vocabulary is not easy especially for fans who are not so familiar with using vocaloids. Maybe that made you alone. I have a experience a bit, but there are still so many things to learn. Fans who know much about them are not majority even in Japan. However, I hope I can be of some help. Blacksaingrain 13:59, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Ah, take your time, we're in no hurry. I’ll be a bit busy from the day after tomorrow, but I can go through it in my spare time anyway. Blacksaingrain 03:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC) Long Time Yeah,i just become the Admin of xXx Holic Wiki and that great,Apparently if the character has a japan name,woud you write Watanuki Kimihiro or Kimihiro Watanuki,please give me a suggestion and thanks,ooh and can you help me builing the wiki's Theme and Wiki.PNG,pleaseeeeee,--LaughingVampire1990 13:28, July 8, 2010 (UTC) Phoneme page I've been looking for some useful information with technical jargon and translating them into English these days for the article, but it seems to take some time and I know I always make stupid mistakes once I rush, just like I did on Lily's page. I couldn't believe I overlooked her company's name :( Need to reread myself in what I write naggingly. Blacksaingrain 08:45, July 17, 2010 (UTC) Re: Release Date Page not sure what you mean, unless it is editing the infobox template to link to the release date page. Anyway, going to edit the pages again when it comes to searching for their names on nico and youtube. 18:02, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Phoneme List - Chinese I'm curious about it. I added some information on the article. According to the official site there is a list to have accessibility to 90% of the Chinese pronunciation in her help file, but probably not a Chinese databank. I wonder how she will deal with Hanyu pinyin, some of initials or retroflexes, however, it’s very interesting anyway. Don’t worry about the article Vocaloid, if I find good information sources, I’ll add them too. But the problem is, there is a limited amount of information for English Vocaloids.Blacksaingrain 15:11, July 24, 2010 (UTC) Magnet art tracing I haven’t checked Nico these days and I’ve got the facts straight just now. Certainly it’s not clear when things calm down, rather, they might affect many other songs that the illustrator offered her works to. I’ll make a new article of the illustrator with a brief explanation for it later. magnet has been kept private and the matter is still under discussion by authors, but if it won’t be settled, the song might be deleted and reuploaded with different illustrations by other illustrators. The same thing can be said for other songs. Blacksaingrain 03:17, August 3, 2010 (UTC) :"Just be friends" has also been closed to public and "Cendrillon" might be the next as people have got into a shouting match over the matter on its page.Blacksaingrain 04:14, August 3, 2010 (UTC) linking videos How exactly are you working this feature? I want to make sure I get it right, I noticed that there are no long history edits with the Weekly Video template, so where are the previous ones linking from. -- Bunai82 (talk page) 19:56, August 16, 2010 (UTC) Alrighty I'm the anonymous who edited Sweet Ann's songs. I get your point now. I shouldn't have talked so soon... D:. I guess, its better to have these lots of songs listed rather than underappreciating some songs. Thanks! 09:26, October 5, 2010 (UTC) Q : Gallery template Is this template free to use? I have a wiki that uses a lot of images and would like something that will be workable with the *ugh* oasis skin. -- Bunai82 (talk) 01:30, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :ah thanks. Its a neat template... I need to figure out how to make my own. -- Bunai82 (talk) 10:35, October 29, 2010 (UTC) Re: Feed back The template? The idea is good since Oasis is going to elongate the heck out of the page. The amount of pages will be unbelievable though. Are you worried about that part? -- Bunai82 (talk) 21:51, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :If it can stay in order and is easy to find, then go for it. I must admit the lack of an admin (or even a maintenance admin) is getting rather annoying. Anyway, did you need help copy/pasting the list or something? Hopefully the links will be stable enough for a few months before going through them to see if the video was removed. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:41, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::I admit I cannot sort more then the Vocaloid pages out... In some cases I simply don't know which are the covers of the orginal Vocaloid songs, and which are the vocaloid songs. Though, I need to complete the template. I need to complete the "etc, etc," bit (oh snap, laziness). I'm pushing to get this wikia more attention right now to see what that brings. The youtube list is just the first step. Regardless, I don't want the wikia to become THE resource, I'd rather see other sites stay popular, thats why I'm very keen to keep main news linking to those sites. Plus, so many people don't have faith in this wikia that its impossible. I put up the recent info on Lily... People doubted it... Thats enough to make me acknowledge that we'll never be considered reliable, even when the info is correct. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 23:10, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Well, you definitely work hard. So I wish I could do more than just compliment on a userpage. :::This wiki was very outdated before you and a few more editors arrived, so it is nice that things are keeping current. All there needs to be is more organizing. And it won't be instant... I know lol, since I am behind on my own wiki. -- Bunai82 (talk) 21:17, November 4, 2010 (UTC) Re: The calls out Cool'. Well, it would be nice to have an active admin. I know the current one is busy with school priorities and that is important and understandable, but the lack of a second active admin or any other authority can be agitating. I am the lone admin on my adopted wiki, but so far I've been actively editing and would like to appoint someone that isn't a spammer and basically likes to add to the site like I do. Such decisions can be quite difficult. But in the case of the Vocaloid Wiki, I think there are certain people here who would like to maintain without being pushy about it. -- Bunai82 (talk) 19:53, November 22, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, he is good at what he does, when he is here ^^;; Having someone who can edit the css and delete pages is really needed. Also, we should put a rule on the Mainpage and MediaWiki:Photo (ugh to photo) that uploading fanart is not wanted, unless it is their own and they plan to maintain their vocaloid. BUT I still want to try a vocaloid fanmade wiki to clear things up. But I think a better name is needed and something that relates back to this wiki is essential. :Sorry for the little OT. -- Bunai82 (talk) 20:03, November 22, 2010 (UTC) ::If I can pull myself away from my own wiki, I can go through some fanmade pages to see which are not being active anymore. Though I am an avid fan of history pages on wikis, regardless of the subject not being up-to-date. -- Bunai82 (talk) 23:07, November 22, 2010 (UTC) :::Lol, Aster seems to be the most organized, Damesukekun‎ is more focused on correct information by translation and such, O Herman seems to maintain articles rather nicely. Me... hmm XD not sure. I'm more of a minor fix person who tries to get pages noticed. -- Bunai82 (talk) 21:33, November 23, 2010 (UTC) No reply on a secondary Admin yet? -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:54, November 30, 2010 (UTC) :Alrighty, more waiting, oyi -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:57, November 30, 2010 (UTC) Bah, guess I will have to volunteer to take on some kind of rights, at least temporarily. -- Bunai82 (talk) 09:23, December 11, 2010 (UTC) ::It seems Damesukekun and O Herman want to run the fanmade section like UTAU wiki, but I don't know if such methods will work on here. Certainly the whole Vocaloid Fanmade concept needs some major overhauling. I think people are depending too much on official derivatives for the way a fanmade should be and how it should grow. But the thing is, that started when Vocaloid was in the second era, basically an imageboard and otaku who were just getting into the whole synthesizer thing. So unless you are a popular artist already, your fanmade isn't going to take off as well as you would like. There are so many now, no one is really paying much attention. ::oyi, as much as I don't want to use this example. The Japanese otaku fandom can be pretty organized when it comes to this type of things, while the Western otaku fandom is rather broken up about it. They are inspired by their Japanese counterparts, but don't want to work together to build something that would establish a decent mascot. ::Back to the first part, while UTAU is based upon Vocaloid, it's different when it comes to each subjects fanmades. The obvious one being an amateur voicebank over a professional company voicebank. UTAU creators are more likely to build up their character long before they create a site or wiki page about them. With Vocaloid creators it seems to be derivative first, no real build up, page quickly. However, perhaps we can work with this type of method and smooth it out. I don't want people to feel discouraged if their Vocaloid chara is not popular within the few months, I mean... how many do you expect to remember? Without some promoting around online, the character will likely never take off and the creator will just dump it from disappointment not from boredom. -- Bunai82 (talk) 00:21, December 15, 2010 (UTC) :::I am all for removing the ones that literally have no activity (creator and community wise) and trying to start, semi, fresh. Naturally half of this task requires admin power =_='. That proposed page still sits there, and I doubt anyone active has bothered with it. I know I don't look at much, as there is no real communication on what to do about it, especially from the creator of this wiki. :::As for now, how about putting a message on the front page that the adding fanmades will be on hiatus? Removing the link and such. Until we all figure out what the heck to do with the current ones. -- Bunai82 (talk) 02:52, December 15, 2010 (UTC) Staff reply Got a reply from staff. Obviously a community discussion was started, but with just two of the most active members being the only ones, I wonder if it will count. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:04, December 13, 2010 (UTC) :Link? XD if it is to the Community discussion, then it is you who created it lol. -- Bunai82 (talk) 00:28, December 14, 2010 (UTC) Lol usually that is how second adminship works, the most active and most contributing editor gets the position. I would only want temp rights so I can do some clean up. Not sure how you demote yourself though. -- Bunai82 (talk) 08:34, December 22, 2010 (UTC) :Thank you, I will be going through the images marked for deletion and well, delete them lol. Moving images to proper names and categories so they are easily found, and think of a titles to get a consistency for fanmade thumbnails and illustrations, because right now, they are hard to find and all over the place, so there are going to be some broken gallery and pages due to redirect suppression. :You may not want adminship, but you do seem the best for you, as you have direction and can get around the site so easily. -- Bunai82 (talk) 21:54, December 22, 2010 (UTC) ::lol okay ::Don't worry, I know which ones to sort. ^_^ even if deleted it can be restored... as odd as that is. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:01, December 22, 2010 (UTC) infobox producer (review) I made an infobox for the Producer pages so there can be some easier format to follow, what do you think? I'm going to try and hid the "playlist" section, as it would seem to be the only thing that could be unused, common among YT Producers. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:10, December 2, 2010 (UTC) Song Articles Should we have articles on the most notable Vocaloid songs (ie. Black Rock Shooter, Dark Woods Circus etcetera.)? I'd be more than happy to help. Plus, I'd bring a song template to the site. Go or no go? ProtoStealth 02:46, December 15, 2010 (UTC) Re:Image guidelines... Doubt there is one lol. What do you have in mind? Because I want to at least title official and fanmades before you go into the details of image policy. Also need a template and category, which is gonna take some hours since I am sorting. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:31, December 22, 2010 (UTC) :Lol that's a start. Are the vocaloid wiki rules pages in place anywhere... I honestly forgot about them lol -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:57, December 22, 2010 (UTC) Re:Funny old world... ^_^;; that shouldn't be a bad thing, it would just make someone more cautious of their purchase next time. Besides disappointment, I don't see the true bad in getting a fake... well that is if you intended to get it for collecting purposes (and lulz) or just got over it quickly and got the real thing. -- Bunai82 (talk) 23:42, December 22, 2010 (UTC) :That is just one of the risk of a hobby. If it doesn't fall a part in the hands of the gifted (?), then I think they will survive XD -- Bunai82 (talk) 23:58, December 22, 2010 (UTC) ::LOL looks like that cymbal monkey -- Bunai82 (talk) 00:15, December 23, 2010 (UTC) :::It'd be cute if it was more accurate, dah well. -- Bunai82 (talk) 00:46, December 23, 2010 (UTC) Delete template You added some to images a few days ago with no reason given. It makes it hard to know why they were marked. Many are actually linking to the main fanpage as a "click here" link. Since I am sorting images I removed the delete template for now. -- Bunai82 (talk) 21:35, December 23, 2010 (UTC) :Alrighty ^_^ the summary and category will acknowledge what it links to, so it won't be regarded as unused. Not sure why Wikia doesn't count linked images as a "featured on". -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:41, December 23, 2010 (UTC) About Table templates Can you explain what you are doing with them and what changed? Currently there are quite a few to follow, so I want to know what will link to what. And if it isn't too much of a problem, could you have some consistency with their titles? Cause half of them I don't know what they mean XD -- Bunai82 (talk) 21:59, December 25, 2010 (UTC) :ah okay, well feel better and just stay off the site for a few hours XD. With my moms new religion I don't think we celebrate or have Christmas anymore. So I just spent the time watching TV and updating wikis. :To the templates, thanks for explaining the basics, I have to get use to what is where now. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:28, December 25, 2010 (UTC) About KEI He's often introduced as "a designer" of Miku or Rin/Len Kagamine, but the word "designer" often does not mean "a person who devises or executes designs or one who creates forms, structures, and patterns, as for machines" when it is used in Japanese(although there are few exceptions). Especially for Kei, it just means "illustrator" or "one who does artworks". And the concepts of the characters were designed by the members of Crypton, not by Kei. Mainly he just did the illuslations of them like what Kentaro Miura did for Gakupo. However, many western fans misunderstand that Kei is the main developer and the designer of Miku and Rin/Len, and think his comics like "Hatsune Mix" is official, as the word carries several meanings. I think it would be better to use "illustrator" instead on this wiki. What do you think of that? Blacksaingrain 11:07, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :Thank you:D Um, sorry for bothering you, but will you help me with fixing the title of the picutre here. I tried to fix it though, I don't how. How does it go?Blacksaingrain 12:14, December 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Ah, thank you for fixingBlacksaingrain 12:36, December 26, 2010 (UTC) 30 day trial I wrote my reply on Lily's talk page. Just one thing. Please do not remove (citation needed) without generating additional information to supplement on articles or adding sources. That's against the wiki rules. We're not kids. Blacksaingrain 10:04, December 29, 2010 (UTC) :Well, even if you are thinking of adding them, still you should remove the template AFTER you add. That's the rule. How can people know you will add them? And I put it to every information that should be proved. If there're many, that means you need to prove every one of them.(Of course, if one source can support several lines, you don't need to put it to every one of them to remove) Blacksaingrain 10:26, December 29, 2010 (UTC) ::I just want to increase reliability of this wiki and don't want to easily remove other people's edition for no reason. I'm thinking the template as a chance to avoid removing. But sorry for being a nitpicky anyway.Blacksaingrain 11:06, December 29, 2010 (UTC) :::When it comes to typographical errors and omissions, I have to confess I'm not a good editor at all. Always thanks to editors who correct my silly mistakes XD And you don't need to worry about Meaw, I'm not so familiar to anything about vocaloids beyond official ones. As Japanese vocaloid fandom is spreading so quickly and widely, I can't catch up with it. But I know you do not spare any effort for it.Blacksaingrain 11:58, December 29, 2010 (UTC) Ah, okay. Thanks for telling Blacksaingrain 16:37, December 29, 2010 (UTC) About title for Fanmade pages Example, they are currently like this: * Hagane Vocaloids * Voyakiloid * Genderbent Vocaloids I wanted to make it easier by hooking the title to the main Fanmade Vocaloids page, by doing this: * Fanmade Vocaloids/Hagane * Fanmade Vocaloids/Voyakiloid * Fanmade Vocaloids/Genderbent Even though all the pages need some kind of makeover, what do you think? -- Bunai82 (talk) 20:21, January 3, 2011 (UTC) :You will have to explain your idea a bit better. Since I am not sure if removing the individual articles is a good idea, unless the plan is to use the Fanmade Vocaloids page as the main map of sorts to reach the other derivations and original fanmades etc. RE:Anti-Vandalism rules? - I just linked to the default rules created by Wikia, Antonio Lopez didn't create an original document about the Vocaloid Wiki. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:26, January 3, 2011 (UTC) ::Alrighty, thank you. ::@Rules - Now that I re read the default rules, I can see what you mean. You can remove number 3 lol, since that is just inviting trouble. Other than that, some things need to be thought about, especially when it comes to fanmades and factual information, and copyright blah blah. -- Bunai82 (talk) 23:02, January 3, 2011 (UTC) :::May I ask what is important with Hagane? Is it because each Crypton has a counterpart now? In comparison to the Voykiloid. At least with the main fanpage up, it will keep the explanation of what each derivative is. I would just like to see Fanmade Vocaloids page be the source of letting people know what it is. The rules/creation page should be left for itself... it would be distracting imo. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:16, January 4, 2011 (UTC) :::::Alright, now that is clear. It is best to keep them on one page. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:26, January 4, 2011 (UTC) About Fandesk template hey more text XD. Anyway, I wanted to know if I could move some of the pages to a qualifier? As in placing under one title. This would at least eliminate the two categories. For example: *Getting Started → Tutorial: Getting Started *Using the Parameters → Tutorial: Using the Parameters *Phoneme List → Technical: Phoneme List *Legal Implications → Technical: Legal Implications Or perhaps a infamous slash method lol Which reminds me the categories need sorting... so messy, but I am not sure where to start. -- Bunai82 (talk) 22:42, January 4, 2011 (UTC)